In the run-up to his visit to the People’s Republic of China Belarus President Aleksandr Lukashenko granted an interview to China Media Group, one of the world’s largest mass media conglomerates. China Media Group’s reporter had a lot of questions for the Belarusian head of state. Truth be told, promises were made to later reveal all the details of the conversation that lasted an hour and a half. The meeting with reporters did not end then. Belarusian reporters invited the president to continue the conversation (because quite many good reasons had accumulated) and Aleksandr Lukashenko did not back down. All the hot details of the conversation and the key bits of insider information are covered by our article.
Results of the talks between Putin and Trump in Alaska
You have surely noticed that as they evaluated results of the Russian-American negotiations in Alaska, many mass media and experts stated that Donald Trump has been defeated. Practice indicates that the U.S. president gets most criticism from those in favor of continuing the conflict in Ukraine. Does the Belarusian president agree with the criticism targeting the American leader?
“I absolutely disagree with those conclusions and deductions presented by reporters and all kinds of ‘specialists’, who say that Putin gained more, Trump gained less. Some rudely say that Putin smashed Trump’s face on the table and Trump lost… If you don’t understand basic diplomacy, you shouldn’t offer evaluations. These are different people, different positions,” Aleksandr Lukashenko explained.
The president remarked that Vladimir Putin had represented one of the parties to the conflict while in this situation Donald Trump had acted as a mediator between the conflicting parties in order to find out Russia’s stance.
“America may supply weapons but it doesn’t wage a war against Russia. America is not a party to this war. But Donald Trump and America are mediators. And in order to more deeply understand the situation in this conflict, in order to more seriously evaluate the situation from the side of Russia and to understand Russia in this war, as a mediator Trump invited Putin to Alaska and we should thank him for it,” the head of state stressed.
In his words, a large number of venues was discussed where the meeting of the leaders of Russia and the USA could have taken place. “The invitation to come to Alaska is a bit exotic but beautiful. Before that Putin called me and told me they had been considering Rome, Geneva, Türkiye, the Emirates, and so on. I told him: well, it is not a good idea for us to go to Rome as Orthodox Christians… He said he agreed and understood it. He said all these venues had been rejected and they were waiting what Americans would offer,” the Belarusian leader revealed the details.
“Why should you reproach Trump for not bringing concrete results?” Aleksandr Lukashenko asked a rhetorical question. Vladimir Putin could talk about concrete things but he did not think it was necessary. He talked about general matters in a diplomatic way. As a matter of principle, it matches his character.
The Belarus president was surprised by Donald Trump’s statements. One would expect him to reveal all the details bit by bit as usual but he was also restrained and laconic. “A smart man. [His speech after the talks lasted for] four minutes,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said. “He played his role perfectly. Not because I stopped criticizing him after this conversation [Trump’s call to Aleksandr Lukashenko]. No. But he played his role great despite all the expectations. I was also expecting him to get into stride and start mouthing off some concrete things. He acted great in this situation.”
“He is a mediator. He found out Russia’s stance in this conflict. He understood what Russia wants. But he didn’t even talk about it because he is not a party to this conflict. What had been discussed is concrete things that the presidents Putin and Zelensky would talk about. The parties to the conflict,” the Belarusian leader pointed out.
In his opinion, the meeting of the leaders of Russia and the USA was of fundamental importance: “Life on our planet depends on these two countries today. God forbid if they blow up all the nuclear warheads that they have – the planet will leave its orbit. It was quite a normal meeting. There is nothing to reproach them for on the basis of the role the two presidents played.”
Aleksandr Lukashenko believes that a very significant outcome of the talks in Alaska is the fact that Donald Trump now understands more clearly Russia’s stance on resolving the conflict and the overall situation in the combat zone.
“Whatever you may say, after all Russia’s stance is more important for the future peace than Ukraine’s. Why? Because Russia dominates the battlefront today. It dominates very heavily. And in the key area in the direction of Donetsk, around Pokrovsk a very dangerous situation for Ukrainians has evolved,” Aleksandr Lukashenko pointed out.
In his words, Ukrainians redeployed the most capable troops from this area to the north, to the area around Symu and Kharkov where Russians had formed a wedge into Ukraine’s territory and had to be stopped. By doing so, they weakened the main area in Donbass, in Donetsk Oblast. “And then things happened: Russians are advancing along the entire battlefront. Yes, [they advance] calmly. Putin and I have discussed it. He said: if we move faster (and we can), we will lose more people. They spare the people, the military personnel. But they advance little by little everywhere. By half a kilometer, by a kilometer every day and liberate more and more villages,” the president described the existing situation.
He believes the current state of affairs is extremely dangerous for Ukraine. “Today Ukraine needs to stop. It is necessary to sign a peace treaty in order to avoid losing the entirety of Ukraine,” the Belarusian leader stated.
In his opinion, Donald Trump deserves gratitude for even undertaking the role of a mediator and for being eager to end the conflict. Although he may not feel good about getting involved in this business because he had thought it would be much easier to bring about peace. “I warned Americans word for word when they came to see me long before these talks: tell Trump that he cannot back down now. He has taken it upon himself to solve the problem and he has solve it. And he can solve it and is trying to solve it,” the president remarked.
Trump’s meeting with Zelensky and EU leaders
After the negotiations with Vladimir Putin Donald Trump hosted a meeting with leaders of European Union countries and Vladimir Zelensky in Washington. Donald Trump explained the essentials of what is going on. “And Europeans were eager to join the negotiations by saying nothing can happen without them,” Aleksandr Lukashenko remarked.
To be honest, Europeans have already exhausted their trust limit. Do you remember how negotiations of the “Normandy Four” took place in Minsk in February 2015 upon the initiative of European leaders? Participants of the meeting were intent on resolving the crisis in Ukraine. However, the attempt to bring about solid peace failed. And for solid reasons.
“Later on they confessed: they did not come to Minsk in order to establish peace, but in order to give Ukraine an opportunity to rearm,” the head of state recalled. “Why do you take offence today if Trump doesn’t invite you? Why are you necessary? You have already tried once. America didn’t interfere back then although I was saying that no peace would be achieved without America, that America should get involved. They didn’t involve America. They decided to establish peace on their own. The attempt failed. They did it deliberately. They deceived Russia. This is why Trump is absolutely right in getting America to take care of the matter on its own and in trying to push for a peace treaty. I think it is sincere.”
Although Aleksandr Lukashenko did not rule out that on the whole, it is advantageous for the United States of America when Europeans are seen as “hawks” by the general public. It gives him an opportunity to show to Vladimir Putin and other people what hardships he has to deal with: he is fighting not only for peace and the rapprochement of positions of Ukraine and Russia but he is also overcoming the resistance of Europeans.
The president is convinced that if a serious agreement on the Ukrainian conflict is reached, Europe will not be able to foil it. “If Trump seriously decides [to secure peace in Ukraine], they will be unable to counteract it. They need to somehow get involved and play some role of their own. Of course, they are Europeans. Of course, it is important for them what Ukraine will be like and what peace in Ukraine will be,” the Belarusian leader believes.
He also drew attention to the fact that it would be difficult for Europeans to get involved in the process because the Minsk accords had failed. A lot depends on Donald Trump’s decisions, Aleksandr Lukashenko added. If the USA’s involvement cannot secure an agreement between Russia and Ukraine, then Europe will have two options. “Europeans will be forced to either swallow it or at least take a position at the rear,” the president explained.
Negotiations between Russia and Ukraine
The president stated that negotiations between Russia and Ukraine are “practically on the table”, as diplomats say. “But you can see statements. Putin says: yes, we agree, we’ve have been stating what we want for a long time. Vladimir Zelensky says one thing today, another thing tomorrow, yet another thing and so on. Just like Donald Trump used to make contradictory statements. Russians see it and wonder whether President Zelensky is ready for negotiations or not. They believe he is not ready,” he remarked.
However, one should not focus only on public statements of the Ukrainian side, Aleksandr Lukashenko is convinced. They can be described as a smoke screen that hides the genuine, confidential part behind the scenes. In particular, information is available that Vladimir Zelensky is ready to swap territories. And the USA also believes that Ukraine should take this step. Otherwise, it may disappear. And it is impossible to continue the confrontation without American money and weapons.
A possible meeting of Vladimir Putin and Vladimir Zelensky in Belarus
But if negotiations between Vladimir Putin and Vladimir Zelensky really take place, is Belarus willing to host them in Minsk?
The head of state stated that he does not desperately want to organize such talks, although Belarus would be an ideal place for them. But if Russia and Ukraine come to an agreement and decide to send their representatives to Belarus, it will be possible to organize everything at a proper level even the next day. “If they want it and come to an agreement… It is an ideal place for Ukraine and Russia. It is all the same for Donald where he needs to fly. Flying to Europe or to Alaska takes eight or nine hours all the same,” the president remarked.
However, Vladimir Zelensky had previously stated that holding the negotiations in Minsk is allegedly unacceptable because back in the day, as a result of the “Normandy Four” meeting in 2015, the parties failed to secure durable peace. “They have some kind of phobia regarding Minsk. Vladimir Zelensky does,” Aleksandr Lukashenko noted.
He pointed out that later on European politicians admitted that they did not come to Minsk to secure peace but in order to give Ukraine an opportunity to rearm. This is why there is no need to blame Belarus now.
“I don’t have the affliction for showing myself off or enhancing the image. Yes, it is important. But we may get over it. We may do without it. I truly don’t feel an overwhelming desire to invite them to Minsk and the rest. If they want to come, we will organize things any day,” the president stressed. “I once said: they may meet on the Moon, on Mars, they may meet anywhere. But they have to meet and make a decision.”
Conversation with Donald Trump over the phone
While talking to reporters, Aleksandr Lukashenko revealed new details of his recent conversation with U.S. President Donald Trump over the phone. BelTA has already reported that the conversation took place on 15 August upon the initiative of the U.S. side. According to the head of state, the conversation did not happen out of the blue. It was a result of certain steps and concrete negotiations with the U.S. side. About five meetings had preceded the call, including the last meeting with the U.S. president’s special envoy Keith Kellogg.
Mass media reported that during the phone call Aleksandr Lukashenko and Donald Trump discussed not only Belarus-USA bilateral relations but also the resolution of the situation in Ukraine. The situation in the Middle East and interaction with Russia were mentioned.
For instance, the head of state revealed that shortly after the call started, the signal was lost. And Donald Trump called back. “I said: Donald, some enemies have interfered with our conversation,” the president resumed the dialogue between the two leaders with this joke. “He said it may have been Vladimir [Putin]. I said no one else could do it but Donald, he is not the kind of man to interfere with our conversation. He agreed: certainly, it is a joke. I said: don’t make excuses, I will pass the word to him that you consider him an enemy. The conversation began with this joke.”
The conversation also touched upon negotiations in Alaska, which were supposed to begin shortly afterwards, and visits of USA representatives to Minsk and their negotiations with Aleksandr Lukashenko. This is why the possibility of releasing some prisoners was briefly mentioned. And certainly, it was not Donald Trump’s personal initiative but it is most likely that in the course of preparing the conversation about Belarus people close to him gave him background documents and recommended thanking Aleksandr Lukashenko for releasing prisoners and mentioning another 1,300 prisoners, who should also be released according to their opinion.
The release of prisoners
The Belarus president informed the American leader that a special commission had been set up in Belarus to review appeals from prisoners but concrete decisions are up to the head of state. This work proceeds on a continuous basis.
Public perception of these decisions is an important factor. “I don’t really worry about my ratings but I am not indifferent to what my society can say about my actions. For instance, 16 people have been released. Not everyone welcomed it although they don’t have complete information,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.
He clarified that the initial proposal had come from the USA, nobody in Belarus had suggested releasing the prisoners on any terms. It was a variant of the American deal “quid pro quo”. And the president accepted their proposal. As many as 16 people were pardoned. One of them is now stirring up trouble among the self-exiled opposition in Lithuania. However, Americans found reasons to complain about the move: they said that these people had been about to reach the end of their sentence terms and would have been released anyway. “Americans say I have cheated them. I say: guys, you have seen these lists, you were joyful, you wanted me to let this guy go. I released him. The family was reunited. Why do you take offense at me? They are silent. You have nothing to blame me for. Did you want it? You got it,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.
“Do you want a thousand and a half or two thousands (according to their calculations)? Take them. Transport them over there. Do you expect us to release gangsters, who burned, blew up things and admit it? If we release them, they may resume the war against us. The general public would not support me on this,” the president added.
A peace plan for Ukraine
Naturally, the resolution of the conflict in Ukraine was one of the priority topics. The head of state informed the U.S. president about his vision of the possible peace plan in detail.
First of all, in his words, it is advisable to consider an aerial ceasefire and a ceasefire along the battlefront. “In other words, missiles and drones will not fly in this direction and that one. It is very important. For Russia as well. You can see it is not pleasant when strikes target airfields, when oil depots inside Russia are blown up as well as residential blocks and factories. There is nothing good about it for Russia. Putin understands it as well as I do. In other words, Russia doesn’t need that. Ukraine doesn’t even more. After Russians used Oreshnik missiles to strike a major factory with 8-10 underground floors and where they [Ukrainians] could manufacture something, Ukrainians realized it is a disaster. Because Russians could strike at Bankovaya Street [in the center of Kiev where many government buildings are located],” the Belarusian leader pointed out.
He stressed that the Russian side could substantially escalate the conflict by using its new weapon – Oreshnik [Hazelnut] missiles – against more important targets for the Kiev regime but Russia did not go for it because on the whole Russia is intent on a peaceful resolution and Vladimir Putin, who the West often calls an aggressor, refused to authorize strikes against civilian installations and withdrew troops at the very beginning of the conflict when Russian troops were outside Kiev.
“Here is insider information for you. Some people in Russia had ideas. I am not going to name them. Putin told them never ever. They were ready to strike at… If they had used Oreshnik missiles to destroy decision-making centers, as they say, there would have been nothing left,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.
The head of state remarked that several stages need to be completed before peace is secured. But the most important thing right now is to stop combat operations and the loss of lives. In other words, it is necessary to stop shooting first. It is necessary to ensure the cessation of hostilities secondly (without replenishing the troops, without rearming, without accumulation of ammunition and so on). A peace deal can be signed afterwards.
It was in this manner that Aleksandr Lukashenko presented his vision of the situation to the U.S. president. To be honest, Donald Trump believes it is possible to combine the first few stages and transition directly to the signing of the peace treaty. But the Belarusian head of state is convinced that ending the hostilities comes first. After that one can sit down at a negotiating table and negotiate for years. Just like, for instance, Japan and the Soviet Union and now Russia did after World War Two.
Security guarantees for Ukraine
Asked whether Belarus may act as a guarantor of security for Ukraine, Aleksandr Lukashenko remarked that when they talk about security guarantees, then as a rule, permanent members of the UN Security Council are mentioned.
“They talk about the United States of America, the People’s Republic of China, about other powerful countries, about European countries that are not members of the UN Security Council. They can provide such guarantees. Including to Belarus. But when I heard it unofficially, I thought: well, do we need to guarantee someone’s security or not?” the president said.
He stated that if a request is made for Belarus to get involved, then Belarus may take the step. At the same time Belarus is not overly eager to do it.
The head of state recalled that they are also discussing the possibility of deploying European army units in Ukraine, of creating a powerful Ukrainian army and the rest. “Certainly, right now Russians are dead set against the presence of foreign troops over there. Russians don’t need that,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.
The president also remarked that it is necessary to be realistic: even if an agreement is reached to reduce the army in Ukraine or limit the volume of armaments now, it does not mean that the situation will not change by one means or another in the future. Aleksandr Lukashenko mentioned Germany’s past as an example. All the agreements concerning the strength of the German army and the rest have long been forgotten.
“Yes, we and Russians will insist that it mustn’t happen. [Ukraine] should not be an aggressive country. It should not be a staging area for attacking us in the future,” the Belarusian leader said.
Speaking about the composition of security guarantors, the president also mentioned Vladimir Zelensky’s unwillingness to see China among such guarantors because this country had allegedly failed to prevent the war. “Get real! Was China supposed to interfere with the war and prevent it? You were supposed to do everything to prevent the war. And if China is not a security guarantor (China is a member of the Security Council), you know it is very difficult to ensure peace in any part of the world without China, without their security guarantees. This is why before blurting it out, Zelensky should think a little bit first,” the head of state noted.
Belarus-USA relations
The president was asked to evaluate the level of Belarus-USA relations and whether they are getting back to normal. The head of state spoke in favor of gradually reestablishing relations with the United States of America.
“We are going to establish relations with Americans little by little, step by step. It is a large country. A very important country. You see that even Russia and China try to come to terms with it. Although China can easily do without America. It has plenty of leverage. We should come to terms even more so. And we will cooperate to that effect. We are going to build relations with them. We are intent on it,” the president said.
He stressed that the same applies to Belarus’ nearest neighbors: the Baltic states, Poland. Aleksandr Lukashenko had previously stated that one should not quarrel with them but resume cooperation.
U.S. sanctions against Belarus
The president stated that Belarus has made a number of steps to meet the USA halfway and now expects the USA to reciprocate: “We’ve told them: ‘Guys, we’ve made very many various steps to meet you halfway and the rest. Now we expect concrete steps from you.’ I’ve never even talked about sanctions. I swear to you. Our people did. [The Belarusian diplomat Valentin] Rybakov told him: ‘You know what Belarus needs’. I have forbidden soliciting.”
According to Aleksandr Lukashenko, there are no special reasons for such requests, although the sanctions are having a negative effect on the country’s life. But Belarus has adjusted to it to a large extent and has a sufficient amount of foreign markets where Belarusian products are in demand. “Our country with a small economy does not need much. Certainly, life would be better without sanctions. It is a given. There is nothing good about it,” the head of state said.
For instance, the president mentioned sanctions against the Belarusian flagship air carrier Belavia and sanctions against shipments of Belarusian potash fertilizers. “Well, if sanctions against Belavia are lifted and you start flying all over the world without trouble, I guess it is important. But I don’t think you are suffering because of the sanctions against Belavia. We can fly to China. We can fly to all countries from there. We can fly to Russia. All aircraft fly. Well, I guess they have to be lifted. Because the introduction of these sanctions is ridiculous. Potash fertilizers? We sell everything. Even more than we did. Yes, we lose a bit more due to this logistics but we’ve acquired ports of our own in this period. I’d never thought that a port is hard to come by for a country. They are in short supply and hugely beneficial,” Aleksandr Lukashenko remarked.
The self-exiled opposition’s response to contacts with the USA
The head of state pointed out that the self-exiled opposition outside Belarus has nothing to do with Belarus-USA arrangements, including the matter of pardoning a number of prisoners.
“Our self-exiled opposition figures have nothing to do with it. On the contrary, they say they want these ‘political prisoners’. If there are ‘political prisoners’, then there is a reason to put pressure on the ‘dictator’. If there are no ‘political prisoners’, what is there to talk about? Then they [the self-exiled opposition] will not be necessary over there. It is their stance, their policy,” the head of state said.
“I am saying it specifically for those, who are behind bars today. I want them to understand that they [the self-exiled opposition] want them in prison instead of at large. They want them in prison as a reason for condemning my policy and the regime as they say. It is their political face,” the Belarusian leader stated.
He once again stressed that the self-exiled opposition has no relation to the negotiations with the USA about the pardoning of a number of prisoners. However, the self-exiled opposition is too stressed out by Aleksandr Lukashenko coming to terms with Americans: “If things are good, well, then one has to admit that they are good. If you count on something. It is a plus, then it is a plus. As for sanctions, even Zenon Poznyak criticizes you by saying that the sanctions are not against the ‘regime’ but against the nation, they need to be lifted. A wise stance. Our people understand it as well. ‘No! Sanctions! Choke! Choke! Choke!’. They keep spouting this nastiness.”
Negotiations with the self-exiled opposition
The president sees no reason for him to sit down at a negotiating table with representatives of the self-exiled opposition. “Now they want to sit down at the negotiating table. Ideally they would like to sit down with Lukashenko as they contemplate it,” the head of state noted. “Who am I supposed to sit at the table with? With those who destroyed the country? Okay, I could maybe get past that. But what good are they? Will they help us with anything? The people? The state? They are no help to us. If you walk through mud, you may get dirty. Why do I need that? I don’t need it.”
“We don’t forbid talking to anyone. They are free to talk. But I have nothing to talk about with them,” Aleksandr Lukashenko added.
The Belarusian leader’s predictions and Ukraine’s future
The reporters noted that three weeks before the negotiations of the presidents of Russia and the USA in Alaska Aleksandr Lukashenko had said that Moscow was getting ready for negotiations. The prediction turned out to be correct: the negotiations indeed took place. The president was asked how he manages to produce such predictions.
“I am immersed in the matter. If you are immersed in the matter, then you can talk about the matter and have an opinion of your own. But it is your own opinion. But without false modesty experience is a factor to some extent,” the Belarusian leader noted.
The head of state gave an example. After Russia launched the special military operation in Ukraine, Aleksandr Lukashenko talked to Vladimir Zelensky over the phone and some time after that negotiations between Russian and Ukrainian delegations took place in Belarus. The president believes that if the peace negotiations had succeeded at an early stage, Ukraine’s territorial losses could have been smaller.
“This is why this immersion (and as I say, the Lord may have given me advice)… I proceed from that. And then again I know the position of the Russian president,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said. “He suggested and suggests [negotiations]. One should grab the chance. Otherwise, [Vladimir Zelensky] will lose entire Ukraine.”
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